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[MNBrant]

Has anybody ever studied the practice of perfection (the practice of not making mistakes). I believe that this to be the core metaskill of psionics. I started with this in grade school. From the 4th to 6th grade I was bullied. In sixth grade about 10 bullies would wait at various entrances at the end of the day of day in order to find me to beat me up. My strategy to avoid them consisted of watching eye movements to stay out of line of sight and disguising myself with friends coats in order to evade them since they were not able to cover all the entrances. I think I was only caught once. This skill helped me in high school in chess where I noticed that the person who made the most mistakes would lose the chess match. I played chess every day for a year getting beat every day until one day I beat the person I was playing who promptly left never to be seen from again.

I started a bit of a cult among a few dozen freshman (I was in 10th grade) regarding perfection. In a few years some came back to me and reported that they had surpassed me and became perfect. To which I replied that what I had found out was that perfection wasn't important. The group looked at me with something of an expression of pity and left.

As time does roll around however I find that I make fewer and fewer mistakes. I may look wild and out of control sometimes but I feel that my every movement is planned and correct even if I do not know the exact reason I am making it at the time. I will give one example. recently at my work one resident attacked the other with a weapon. I heard the noise and started running to help. When I got there there were three staff standing there unwilling to approach the conflict. Ponderously slow I ran up directly behind the assailant, grabbed him up, and put him on the ground all by myself. I weigh 300lbs and am extremely nonathletic but using the principle of perfection I managed to save the day.

In periods of long stress my emotions shut off and I become machinelike going through the motions to achieve success in the most efficient way. I consider this a psionic skill. Do you agree?

I recently saw the movie The American and was reminded of this by the movements and comments the actors made. I have made the very same movements and talked the very same way at times in my life during times of stress. The only difference is that I never owned a gun so I didn't go around shooting people. I will say that coming back to America from Hong Kong in 2005/2006 was a crazy trip. I was questioned very closely by homeland security who only let up when I told them I was schizophrenic. Chinese security also took my picture, said I was no tourist and finally told me I could stay when I said I was only there to meet a woman. I am schizophrenic and probably said something about being some kind of spy. Kind of like when I was in high school and let it be known that I could pick locks and soon enough a burglary crew showed up and offered me work. I had to come clean then. I also could be that someone has seen video of me making these kind of ninja moves and marked me for life or something, probably something I was doing while being psychotic.

[Wren_Noctis]

Personally I don't believe "perfection" really exists. It's like saying that there is nothing more to learn when knowledge is limitless. For instance, when people in the Enlightenment thought they were the pinnacle of the human race yet they still hadn't discovered electricity. And even if you have "perfected" your psion skills, after you're gone someone will take what you've done and build upon it. If perfection is attainable then we have many, many lifetimes to achieve it.

[MNBrant]

Hmm, Perfection exists in movies. For instances in most movies the characters usually move in the in the most efficient sequence in order to achieve success. The basis for these actions are taken from real life. Like I said I don't try to be perfect I just am most of the time. Trying to be perfect is a waste of energy. This is the science of not making mistakes. You can find it in a certain styles of chess play, I am sure that assassins (maybe only the movie assassins) have it, and possibly certain criminals and spies, mathematicians, etc. It is a metaskill and I feel that it is a type of psionic power. This is not the buddhist type of perfection though perhaps Buddha had it at the end when he knowingly ate his hosts spoiled food that killed him and sent him to nirvana. Knowingly eating spoiled food in order to not upset your host is an example of the metaskill perfection. This is not Aristotle's view that in order to be perfect, a god cannot do anything to affect the world because doing anything would make him less perfect. i.e. The law of Immutability.

[issacweirdo]

Hmm, Perfection exists in movies.

Then again, the events in the movies are already known and planned. It's then possible to plan beforehand. Reality doesn't work that way. Limits are also clearly expressed in movies, when in real life limits can be very obscure. For example, the most "strongest man" shown from the strongest man competition is ONLY the strongest of the men who have participated in the history of the competition. There are obviously men who did not wish to participate in the competition. They are not necessarily guaranteed to be weaker than the grand champion of the competition. The grand champion simply has more recognition and attention than the actual strongest man in this hypothetical situation. Maybe the grand champion really is the strongest man; we don't know. That's the situation reflecting on reality. A movie would only circle around the competition; if done so, then the limits of the men in the competition and the "highest mark of perfection" are clearly visible. The main flaw of trying to define someone's ability in an area as "perfect" is time. No one can accurately predict the future, at least shown to be true for the time being, so therefore we can't predict if someone can potentially reach higher heights of achievement in that particular area in the future. The director can disregard this flaw completely; they are practically God in the directing of their works. They know what the future of that additional world is.

Like I said I don't try to be perfect I just am most of the time. Trying to be perfect is a waste of energy.

Tell me you see the contradiction in that statement. What you are stating is equivalent to the statement you have tons of experience in every field you can think of. You don't have to expand your knowledge, nor do you have to expand your skill in that specific area. You have already reached a level of only grandmasters can reach. Trying to improve and perfect a skill is a "waste of energy", and therefore is useless to you. That is then essentially saying two things: You are the most intelligent human being in the history of mankind, who is also the most athletic ("[snip]I weigh 300lbs and am extremely nonathletic[snip]"), since you know how to be graceful and satisfy everyone's thought of how a proper human should move around, while having the ability to identify every skill in the world of the past, present, and future, while perfecting a huge majority of them within a single lifetime OR you are semi-equivalent to an omniscient being/someone who already has programmed knowledge of practically everything there is to know about mankind, their movements, their games, their knowledge, and every little bit of stuff you can think of.

It is a metaskill and I feel that it is a type of psionic power.

*Cringe*
Trust me, you don't have to be a psion or even believe in the notion of psi to achieve perfection. Perfection must also be a physical AND mental skill; psi is completely different, at least from the physical area of skills. An example would be one of the founding fathers of the American Dream; Benjamin Franklin. He believed in this notion of "moral perfection"; of course, I believe he reasoned attainment of perfection in any area is impossible in his autobiography. He was trying very hard to reach it though, and considering his history that he started out as poor and got filthy rich, while actually being exceptionally talented in some areas of his life, he was damn close. He realized perfection was a state in which someone can never achieve, but was very close to by means of physical effort and mental sturdiness in one's goals. Maybe I might have gone somewhat far by explaining the notion of perfection with Benjamin Franklin; by the way, you can read more about him in his autobio named The Private Life of the late Benjamin Franklin. Point being, please don't associate the notion of and attempted achievement of perfection with it's origins being firmly placed in psionics. Once again, perfection isn't a "power", but a state of achievement in which someone has mastered all there is in one specific area of knowledge.

[MNBrant]

Hmm, you went off on your own tangent ideas of perfection. Thats ok. My statement still stands as defined. I defined perfection as eliminating mistakes. Pretty much Buddha got it. Jesus maybe. The idea that you cant predict the future is preposterous. Mathematicians do this all the time. The idea that everything you see is fictional in movies is a bit out there too. You are as limited to your own perspective as I am to mine.

[meushiman]

Whether perfection is real or not, I believe it is incapable of attaining.  To be perfect would be to do everything without any negative consequences.  And to do that would be to know everything.  For example, you might be going on a date to a fancy restaurant with an awesome girl.  There is no way for you to know that she is vegetarian and dislikes people who aren't.  You order the filet mignon figuring it will make you look good, but it actually doesn't.  I think we should try to be our best, but our best will never be perfect.  There are too many unseen events in life

[issacweirdo]

Hmm, you went off on your own tangent ideas of perfection. Thats ok. My statement still stands as defined. I defined perfection as eliminating mistakes.

Only the last comment with the third quote was my own ideas of what perfection is. The first two quotes and my comments on them was simply logic. You can't be "perfect most of the time"; that's an impossibility. You can't be perfect in the overall sense, but like you said you can be perfect in your own sense. You didn't define perfection as that though; you were stating as if you were perfect in everyone's perspective all the time. Technically if you perceive yourself as without mistakes, then in your opinion you can think you are perfect. That's a more clearer definition which you should have stated in the beginning, since you only confused readers like me when it was not necessary.

The idea that everything you see is fictional in movies is a bit out there too. You are as limited to your own perspective as I am to mine.

Now wait there for a moment. Not once did I state everything in the movie was made up. But it can be CONTROLLED. Two very different things. I even stated the director was similar to an omniscient being who can control everything that happens in the movie world. I don't need to perceive the director themselves to know they control everything that happens inside a movie; I can do that simple process myself. This is related to your talk of perfection since a movie can clearly express the limits of their characters in the past, present, and future; this can lead to possible attainment of perfection. To be "perfect" in the sense you are the most skilled in a specific area of activity AND you never commit mistakes requires huge amounts of knowledge, where movement and thought is not wasted in something useless. Only movies can pull off all of those requirements within a lifetime. If I'm sure also, Buddha definitely did make some mistakes in his life. He wasn't perfect all the time. He was only peaceful with his thoughts and actions; nothing else. Like I said, if you truly only define perfection as without mistakes then there is not a guarantee the buddha was perfect 24/7. You can read his biography if you are still confused; he did not become a sifu immediately after he left his castle. He spent a good portion of his time screwing up and trying to understand the faults of the human race; this requires experience. I'd rather not involve religions any further into the conversation though.

My perception is NOT limited to your level of perception. Prove it. This does not only include sensory information derived from the organs in the human body that collect information. You also have to prove the amount of information we interpret from our literal perceptions is the same. Have fun doing that.

To meushiman:

Whether perfection is real or not, I believe it is incapable of attaining.  To be perfect would be to do everything without any negative consequences.

I agree, to an extent. I also believe that in order to avoid those negative consequences on purpose requires an advanced ability to perceive everything around you, while requiring massive knowledge of your past, the future, and movements/thought/actions that are never wasteful in themselves.

And to do that would be to know everything.

Exactly. Thus my last comment on what are the specifics required to achieve perfection in MNBrant's sense.

I think you demonstrated it nicely with your given example. Even if you also knew the information beforehand on what she likes/dislikes, it can make you seem as a stalker...which still is a mistake. Honestly, MNBrant has still not clearly defined what his sense of perfection is. When he states perfection is related to the act of, "[elimination of] mistakes" (MNBrant, 9/5/10), are the mistakes viewed in his perception, others' perception, or both?

[MNBrant]

I defined perfection narrowly. buddah was perfect because he ate poison food rather than offend his host. Jesus's martyrdom was supposedly perfect. I am perfect not because I do not make mistakes but rather that it is in my genetic makeup to choose the best possible outcome regardless of my knowledge of the facts. God being perfect decided to make an imperfect world... How do know that the world is in fact imperfect? It's a very simple definition. Perfection is the science of eliminating mistakes. If you get 100% on a test that is a perfect score. If one of the questions on the test is wrongly written and you get 99% this is not a perfect score you have made one mistake even though you did not get the question wrong. I think you are reading too much into this or do not understand. This is why perfection is a metaskill and that I had followers in high school who followed it.

[issacweirdo]

I am perfect not because I do not make mistakes but rather that it is in my genetic makeup to choose the best possible outcome regardless of my knowledge of the facts.

I'm sorry, but that's too much fluff for me to handle. Have fun with yourself.

[MNBrant]

Just because you choose to disagree everything I have ever said does not make my statements untrue. Actually if I do find a lack in you, it would be an unwillingness to believe in things. You say this is true or not true. You do not say I do not believe this statement to be true. I believe this scepticism or lack of belief in things is a handicap even greater than that of my supposed handicap of schizophrenia. My understanding is that scepticism is caused by too little dopamine in the brain. If you go back and read your own posts you will find very little statements of belief there.

[issacweirdo]

Just because you choose to disagree everything I have ever said does not make my statements untrue. Actually if I do find a lack in you, it would be an unwillingness to believe in things. You say this is true or not true. You do not say I do not believe this statement to be true. I believe this scepticism or lack of belief in things is a handicap even greater than that of my supposed handicap of schizophrenia. My understanding is that scepticism is caused by too little dopamine in the brain. If you go back and read your own posts you will find very little statements of belief there.

I'm sorry, but you just said perfection is in your genetic make-up. If you can't see the fluff there then all is lost

[MNBrant]

I really don't agree that all is lost. You are not me so you cannot know what it is like. I have had many experiences where I survived by the skin of my teeth. Is it luck, skill, or genes or a combination of all three? You missed the genius statement when I didn't agree with you that the world was in fact imperfect. In the greater scheme of thing the world may indeed be perfect. People confuse perfect with fairness, beauty, peace, love, etc. I don't view it like that.

[psiman]

Oh boy...
I sense this topic being locked

[issacweirdo]

Oh boy...
I sense this topic being locked

Oh boy, I generally hope it will become locked.

To MNBrant:
It's just luck, trust me. There are no life forms that I know of, or that the media has reported, that seem to have a "sixth sense". You are merely basing your views on personal experiences; nothing more. You're also throwing assumptions all over the place, ie genes is the main reason why you hardly make mistakes. You don't even have the right equipment to know that, since you would have posted your results a long time ago.

My understanding is that scepticism is caused by too little dopamine in the brain. If you go back and read your own posts you will find very little statements of belief there.

You're right; I do find my own posts to have very little belief in them. They are mostly composed of logic. Only with one opinion in my first post did I include a belief. I'm guessing you are also referring to this website? http://www.dbskeptic.com/2008/03/25/faith-versus-the-scientific-method/

If I believed in something for once then of course I will think it's true! How could I disprove it when I became a steadfast believer in the area? Skepticism is much more useful than faith. If everyone had "held on to their faith" in what they believe in, how do you think the advancements in science would have ever manifested itself? Please look at times BEFORE the enlightenment era. You might learn a useful thing or two. Then refer to the enlightenment era. Now compare the statistics of the mortality rate back then at their specific age groups to our own time mortality rate of the specific age groups. You will find a huge difference. The only exception to my claim would probably be third-world countries, but I personally think that's due to overpopulation, an entirely different problem than the one we are discussing right now. To summarize, you are trying to make me argue with my personal beliefs only and less of logic. Oh boy, that's going to create a very peaceful conversation online...

[The Adfeng]

As we are all humans, we all make mistakes.  It is the nature of things.  You cannot claim that you have never made a mistake, and never make mistakes.

In fact, you made the mistake of pissing me off for one of the last times.  This thread is locked.  If you create another thread like this, you are gone.  You are not almighty.  You are not perfect.  You are not any of that.  Quit making fluff topics.  I've had enough.

If you disagree with me locking this thread, pm me.